Uncreative Labs

Joined: 04 Jun 2006 Posts: 23 Location: Poland

I have tried to use Windows 98 SE on my Celeron 2.8 GHz machine.
Now I'am going to install XP again.

Windows 98SE was relased about 8 years ago and it's too old.
For me XP is more comfortable, it autodetect my USB drive and digital camera.
I can run some modern games.
To speed up computer I use just classic Windows layout.

I'am not planning to install Vista in future.
XP is what I need.

Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 127 Location: LI, NY

I use Win 3.1 on my older computers in service. (486sx & 286)
My main computer is running Linux, Debian to be exact. I can't say I've ever had a problem with it.
At work though, I'm forced to use WinXP but I've managed to do this to it...

larger image can be found at: http://eriks.servehttp.com/etc/progman_xp.gif

Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 7 Location: Oneonta, NY

hey guys, it been a long time, lol

I work at a helpdesk, and it is now impossible for students to run older versions of windows then xp. The reasoning my superiors give is that since microsoft doesn't update them anymore, there will be security vulnerabilities. I see what they're saying, but it really stinks for students on a budget. They've been forced to either upgrade, or are not allowed to register on our network (which makes a computer pretty worthless nowadays).

Joined: 21 May 2006 Posts: 47 Location: London, England

Why not Windows 2000? You can pick up computers that run Windows 2000 fairly well very cheap (and often free).

Where I work, we only support XP and 2000.

Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 7 Location: Oneonta, NY

opps, your right. We support 2000. Very view people have it though. Its quite amazing what older processors can do when they have alot of ram. I ran into a Celeron 500mhz with 512mb of ram runnign windows XP! And it didn't do so bad, he was only using it for web browsing and music. ALso recently had a P3 500mhz with 256 of ram, and that did fine with xp as well.

Its also gota be a legit copy, cause if its not, you're not able to get the updates and your outa luck.

I cant imagine changing over to vista for several years.

Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 261 Location: WisConSin

So now they force you to bring in your manual, disks and coa when you stand in line to get a NIC hookup turned on at college.

That is just plain dumb, shows MS's effect on universities, our university monitored FTP transfers on MS's behalf to prevent student piracy (of coarse they didn't care as long as it wasn't MS software).

Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 138 Location: Lynnwood,WA

All this talk of security vulnerabilities, and who does and don't support older versions of Windoze reminds me of how come I got into I.T., because I was peeved at those same people. Here's another long one.......

I've used MS-DOS/Windows 3.1x and Windows 9x as my main O/S's for quite a period of time until this year. Never once have I had a virus! Never once has anyone harvested personal information off my computer. Never once has anyone stolen my credit card information, or other security issues. It's just a silly ploy to get people to buy shit. That's half the reason I got into I.T., because I was rather ticked off at the people in it who would not help a beginner out because he had an "obsolete machine". When all people wanna do is poke fun at my measly little 486 on it's paltry 8MB of RAM back in the early days, and then tell me to pull all kinds of tom-foolery crap on my parents to get them to buy me a machine, rather than let me convince them otherwise through honest means such as my EDUCATION about the machines themselves, new and old, then I'm certainly not going to be in the mood to spend money at ANY place that condones upgrading just for the sake of it, which sadly, these days, is the problem.

I've been running on the same PIII machine for almost 3 years now, I have upgraded the CPU and Memory, and only seen marginal improvement in performance, mostly because it runs pretty darned fast as is, as fast as anyone would need a computer to go. I never find myself waiting for applications to open in Windows or Linux.

I used to do freelance repairs, and I've found, THESE being the #1 problems with most computers, usually solveable with a simple reformat/reinstall of the Operating System at worst........

- User looks at pornography - I've had a few friends call me in because some moron roomie of theirs "steals" their computer to surf porn sites, and when it comes back, it's slow. Because a LOT of those porn pages, since they are considered "underhandeD" anyway, do UNDERHANDED things to your computer to get you to buy more services, or join MORE porn sites. I don't surf them myself, but it's pretty hard to miss opening up Internet Explorer and finding porn ads popping up everywhere.

- User pirates software via WAREZ sites - Warez sites, are almost like Porn sites themselves, I've seen them, and let's just say it's surprising the imagry you'll find around whatever crap you're looking to pirate. Another friend of mine used to do this awhile back, and wondered why his computer ran like crap all of a sudden. Warez sites do the same things porn sites do, they install spyware, sometimes even FORCE you to install those programs on your computer to get the things you want to copy. Most people are scared to talk about Porn and Warez for fear of being ridiculed, so few really look at this as the root of potential problems. Besides, how do parents who are not computer savvy know their kids are doing this stuff to their computers if they are not keeping an eye on their kids?

- Microsoft Internet Explorer Itself - I used to not like Firefox because it ran slowly on my Celeron system when it first came out, but since I've upgraded and gotten Firefox, I've seen my spyware go down. Over 8 moths of useage, Adaware only found 8 objects on my machine, which were all MRU tracking lists, compared to my IE days, when I found at least 23-40 pieces of spyware a month on the machine, with some of them being potentially harmful.

- Myspace - You'd be AMAZED at what idiotic stuff people do on Myspace. There's so many add-on's for Myspace and so many little tricky things used by commercial people on there to make money it's ridiculous. The whole thing is a walking spyware, adware, and virusfarm, literally. Some people will "befriend" you, and tell you to check their profile, only to wind up re-directed to a damn cam-girl page. Others will join your friend's list and throw you sales pitches in bullitins, farm your addresses from fake login pages, and all kinds of stuff. I have someone who was said to have been convicted for such crap before on myspace as a friend, Lolo (burntpickle), who's now pointing a lot of this stuff out, I also added someone with all the "make money eazy" crap because it's highly amusing to watch. It would take me days to mention all the crap going on on that site, so I'll leave it at that for this part.

- E-Mail Illiteracy - If someone sends you an e-mail with an attachment that you don't know about, then by all means DON'T DOWNLOAD IT! Heck, DON"T EVEN OPEN IT. My mom follows this, she runs a Pentium 200 MMX running 98 that I built her, and so far, she has not had one virus, uses IE, and has had about as much spyware as I've had on that same machine as most things only work on 2000 up now.

What it all boils down to, is COMMON SENSE, which people are severely lacking. instead, many are now being lead around like lemmings by sales people, computer trends, and other crap. Before I decide to do something on a computer these days, I think it through, because it's kinda like the old west out there, it takes only one "bullet in the back" before you have to reformat and reinstall.

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:16 am

creepingnet, before you pull out the common sense argument, stop. It's not common sense. The computer is one of the most complex devices a human will probably ever encounter. There's very little direct cause and effect, so someone won't immediately learn what they did was wrong. They touch the hot oven, then don't get burned until days later. (Actually the burn happens when they touch the oven but they don't feel it nor does it manifest itself until later.)

I recommend most users have ad-ware removal programs, antivirus programs, and know how to both run them and update them regularly. It's kinda like taking your car to the mechanic to get the oil changed... Do it on a regular basis and your car will give you years of reliable service. Don't do it and you'll run in to problems down the road.

Another thing I tell users is to not open attachments they weren't expecting. It's not quite the same as your suggestion above, but I think this is a simple enough way to allow the user to learn the proper behavior.

Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 594 Location: Western NC

Agreed. Even though it was some time ago, there was a time when PC's intimidated me (now at work I'm the "expert"). It takes a lot of screwing-things-up type actions before someone learns what to do and what not to do. XP (the topic at hand) is pretty solid--and at least doesn't crash as often as former versions of Windoze, giving a user a pretty good eXPerience (sorry, just had to...), but it's also from M$, which means it's the target of hacks, bugs and virii. I mentioned a few days ago on OCHL some of the things to do (somewhat modified)...

1> Don't even think of using IE. Use FF or Opera instead.

2> Get a web-based e-mail account (Yahoo, GMail, etc) and don't open anything from anyone you don't recognize. Don't even fool with Outlook Express or Outlook...

3> Stay off porn/warez/freeware sites (except those freeware sites considered reputable).

4> (should've been #1) Install anti-virus/spyware/adware, and keep them up-to-date.

5>Turn on a firewall (XP SP2 has it on by default) and update Windows the first time, then turn off automatic updates (update manually after that---several "updates" have rendered machines nearly useless)

Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 488 Location: pennsylvanai

SINCE I OWN SEVERAL COPIES OF 98 SE,
and down own xp. I stayed where i am for the time being.
I see others having the same problems that we have with 98. this means it is the same old--same old.

I was told that 98 will not do high speed or do a network. Please don't tell me that. most 98 systems are on the net and working as fast as I can instyall from the cd. we shared files when my wife's sysem was really messed up. via a router.

when 98 has errors you can install 98 over 98 and correct the errors and till use the high speed.
dial0up gets screwed up and even the isp cannot fix it!
with xp. it is picky, I tried out a copy and when i installed a video card, it adapted. but when I swapped mb, even similar mb, it simply dies, losing any data I MIGHT have had.
my dauter-in-law has been thru digital hell. her crashed are far more than ours.
her responce, add more protection
2 anti-virus programs and , of course several tsr's. WRONGGGGG.
it keeps ashing for the office 2000 cd and starts to upgrade/ install, but cannot because the sound card is not installed. this happened 6 tiles while i attempted to get my mail.
a protection program pops up frequently. I don't see how she gets anything done.

of course this is an extreme example and a true one. but her system has undergone several crashed and re-installes after a dormat.
but xp better? not by a long shot.
the colleges? Ignorance or worse on the part of IT administrators. that might get a 98 question they cannot or don't want to answer.
A pa state emplouee compiter savvy. tells me I cannot get on hig speed with 98.
all the NIC cards have 3.1. 95.98, 2k and xp drivers.
shy is that ?? 98 installs many NIC cards without even a burp or notice.
???

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:32 am

Sometimes they "don't support" a certain thing, which is different than "can't do it." I don't care if my ISP "supports" doing something, it's unlikely I'll call them for help doing it. (Tech support is great for when something standard goes wrong, but if you can't get OS/2 working with their stuff, good luck finding help.)

Actually, Windows 3.1 might be the safest M$ OS out there. I doubt there's very many 16-bit viruses running around now... But I'm not a security company.

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:05 am

There is many XPlite, TinyXP etc. "homemade" distrobutions which I am temted to try.

I run a regular XP now with all unnecessary services inaktivated., it runs great have had no crasches so far. Changing mobo nowadays is not as simple though
a new installation is usually needed.

I use Foxmail and its remote mailbox there I delete everything not recognised by me before fetching any mail to my machine.

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

After I upgraded to an LCD monitor, I switched to XP because cleartype fonts aren't supported under 2000. Windows XP is a real POS. It seems even if I spend hours disabling all of this stuff, XP still nags me about something. After being bombarded by viruses and such (even after running and frequently updating all the major anti virus programs), I switched to SuSE Linux, which was pretty great. Though, I've now retired my old system and am using OSX on an Intel Macintosh. Windows XP ruined my life, but Vista seems to be a lot worse. I can't see myself using Microsoft products again for a long time.

Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 138 Location: Lynnwood,WA

Puckdropper wrote:

Actually, Windows 3.1 might be the safest M$ OS out there. I doubt there's very many 16-bit viruses running around now... But I'm not a security company.

That's been my theory all along since I started "playing chicken" with viruses on it back in the late 2000's. Heck, I've got it on my 486 box that also runs 95, all I need is a network card to get it back on-line again. 3.1 is bulletproof. However, flash, Java, and some other stuff is next to impossible to get on it.

As for lack of support, I never listen to that drivel since I'm my own tech support. If I don't know it, I read about it, learn about it, and use it. It just irritates me to argue with people over support when the point of support for me is moot. The only time it becomes an issue around me is when a new piece of software comes out, and mom's 98 machine won't run it because it requires Windows 2000 or newer, and even then, sometime's, in the case of drivers, there ARE workarounds (like 98 Drivers from the chipset manufacturer rather than the hardware manufacturer).

T-R-A wrote:

Agreed. Even though it was some time ago, there was a time when PC's intimidated me (now at work I'm the "expert"). It takes a lot of screwing-things-up type actions before someone learns what to do and what not to do. XP (the topic at hand) is pretty solid--and at least doesn't crash as often as former versions of Windoze, giving a user a pretty good eXPerience (sorry, just had to...), but it's also from M$, which means it's the target of hacks, bugs and virii. I mentioned a few days ago on OCHL some of the things to do (somewhat modified)...

1> Don't even think of using IE. Use FF or Opera instead.

2> Get a web-based e-mail account (Yahoo, GMail, etc) and don't open anything from anyone you don't recognize. Don't even fool with Outlook Express or Outlook...

3> Stay off porn/warez/freeware sites (except those freeware sites considered reputable).

4> (should've been #1) Install anti-virus/spyware/adware, and keep them up-to-date.

5>Turn on a firewall (XP SP2 has it on by default) and update Windows the first time, then turn off automatic updates (update manually after that---several "updates" have rendered machines nearly useless)

That's what I was trying to say in that big rant above. The only problem for people is knowing which (freeware) sites are reputable or not. I used to have a theory that if they have a certain number of pop-up ads, they are not kosher.

Another good idea is to have a good backup system handy. I don't like how manufacturers format the hard disk into one big partition, I have a total of FIVE on my system: one for Windows 2000, one for all my important data, one for my games, one for Linux, and one for Linux swap, that way then, if I update/reinstall Linux or Windows, I still have all that stuff that I've created/downloaded/whatever that would take so much time to recover if I had to back it all up to a DVD or CD-ROM. I also have the important stuff copied to my Laptop (since it's all work stuff anyway).

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:08 am

Creepingnet, I don't like how manufacturers DON'T format the drive as one big partition. It'd be different if you could count on Windows taking say, 2 gig and leave everything else for everything else, but you can't. For a Windows-only box, all it does is create an unnatural seperation for the person using it.

For a multi-OS box, then the partitions make sense. What we need is a free Microsoft-supported (NTFS and FAT32 resizing) non-destructive repartioning tool. That will allow the manufacturer to put Windows on and the resourceful user to put Linux on.