Uncreative Labs

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

There is another very useful parameter for QRAM that you might want to remember. I can't remember if it's FL=0 or /FL=0. Basically it disables EMS and allows you to use the EMS page frame as UMB memory. I have found that QRAM works best when the EMS page frame has its base set to the E region.

It is really not possible to use the DRAM on an 8-bit EMS card as XMS, because the 8-bit bus only has 20 address lines. Extended memory by definition is linear memory beyond 1mb.

If you are going to be using the mach20 board, you should be able to get XMS going by loading HIMEM.SYS without any problems. It should not conflict with your AST card, as that is an EMS card that resides in the UMB region.

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:11 am

would i be able to use himem.sys with the mach-20 memory card without using the microsoft driver for it? is there a special himem.sys that i would need? I'm also thinking i could eek out 32kb more ram by disabling dual page frames on the premium card, it takes up 64kb right now. I hope to be able to cut that down to 32kb. I wish i knew all the parameters of REMM431.sys, that would help greatly. I also got the scsi card to function properly with qemm, dropped my available hma to 96kb from 112kb. If i could patch the onboard ram of the mach20 to pure xms that would be awesome, as i'd have a pure umb area to work with aswell, and 3.5mb XMS with 1mb EMS. Right now i have 511kb conventional available. Tell me more of this Dos-up.sys you used on your pc?

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:15 am

is there also an alternative to mscdex? it consumes 32k on it's own and it's really irritating.

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

Does your Mach-20 card require a driver to activate the 286? If so, that would have to be loaded before himem.sys. I don't believe you should need a special version of himem.sys either, but then again I don't know your card. Just try it and see. As it turns out, you won't need to use dos-up.sys if you can get himem.sys going. HIMEM gives you the first 64kb of RAM beyond 1mb. By using the line DOS=HIGH,UMB in your config.sys, DOS will load itself into this area...so then there is no reason to load DOS into UMB. I am actually not sure why DOS-UP.SYS exists in the first place, as it is designed for 286+ systems in which high memory is always available.

As it turns out, having the dual page frame enabled on your AST card is a good thing, and it can actually save you memory if QRAM is configured correctly. The AST card is actually the only one I am aware of that can use this additional frame to map UMB memory into the B region. There is a 32kb block available there when you have a VGA adapter installed. There is a special command you can issue to QRAM to configure it to use that block. If you go into MFT and use the help file, it should sense your AST card and tell you what that command is.

As for your question related to using all the memory on your Mach20 as extended, that would really depend on if microsoft allows you to configure it that way. I believe it is possible to do it on the Intel Inboard. However, you should be aware that there is a large penalty for doing so. You see 640k on your motherboard is only 8 bits wide, versus the 16-bit memory on the mach20 card. As most of the programs you will run will rely on conventional memory, the bottleneck will be obvious.

Finally, I am not certain about a replacement for MSCDEX.EXE. It's a pain in the butt we've all had to live with for years. I normally won't load the drivers for my CD-ROM drive unless I plan to use it.

Based on my experience from using a system with hardware similar to yours (minus the mach20), you should be able to free up 112kb of UMB memory with EMS page frame enabled, or 176kb with the page frame disabled. Plus you would have 64kb high memory when the 286 is running. This should give you more than enough room to load your CD-ROM drivers without sacrificing conventional memory. On my XT, I can have the CD-ROM drivers loaded, and still have 619kb conventional memory available thanks to QRAM.

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:21 am

the 286 is always on, runs through a cable to the mb, so the 286 is always on. I use DR-DOS 6.0, thinking of going to 7 or to MS-DOS or IBM-DOS 6. With QRAM, DR-DOS Mem reports 64kb High memory, but QRAM only gives me 96kb, due to the TMC-850 ram requirements. I think you may be right about the mach 20 ram, i'll try adding the board back and see what happens with it. I know you need to load mach20.sys to turn on the ems part, and use the /h to get 64. There isn't enough memory to load mscdex, i've only got 511kb conventional memory left after startup, so there is something i'm not doing right.

I have the AST configured to give the Mono B-Range, MFT Is actually how i figured it out, it told me how to set up the AST card for it. So that works good, QRAM sees that 32kb no problem. By disabling the page frame, i wouldn't have EMS would i? So by disabling the page frame, i can put mscdex into upper and i would have 176kb upper? I'll have to see what the setting is to do that, and see what happens. I'm curious about the extended part though, the mach20 sees it's own ram and circuity as 16-bit, however everything else is 8-bit so it would kinda be a hybrid bottle neck, which i would be willing to live with if i could have XMS on an xt class machine.

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

Change your SCSI address so that it appears right after your VGA BIOS. You should set it at C800. I think this is where you are missing the extra 16kb. Remember, I have exactly the same SCSI card as you, so your free UMBs should be identical to mine.

You are exactly right about disabling the page frame with FL=0. It will give you an extra 64kb worth of UMB memory to load drivers into.

Be careful with mach20.sys. If you configure it to use EMS, it will conflict with your REMM.SYS driver.

Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 264 Location: Ohio/USA

Anybody try QRAM on a IBM PS/2 286? Will it work on MCA machines? PM me if you have the util I need to get my hands on it.

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

Yes, it will work on MCA machines. But you will still need EMS memory that conforms to either LIM 4.0 or AST EEMS standards.

Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 264 Location: Ohio/USA

Anonymous Coward wrote:

Yes, it will work on MCA machines. But you will still need EMS memory that conforms to either LIM 4.0 or AST EEMS standards.

I was just working on a Model 60 (1MB base memory and a 2 MB MCA memory card) with 3MB, no idea if the extra RAM is EMS or not.

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:26 pm

the problem with c800 is the fact my WD1002-WX1 uses that one, i can't over write that unfortunately.

And the thing about mach20.sys is i don't know the parameter to disable the ems part of it and to tell it to use it all for xms, i'm still trying to find parameters for mach20.sys

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

Oh yeah, I forgot that you also have the MFM controller in there. I guess you won't be getting your 16k then...at some point in the future, I'd seriously consider just putting a BIOS on your SCSI controller or getting that 8-bit ATA controller being developed at vintage-computer.com

Have you already tried HIMEM.SYS without mach20.SYS?

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:25 am

speaking of 8bit ATA controllers, what's the link for that guy again? haven't tried the himem, i've been looking for something or someone that has command parameters for mach20.sys no one seems to have even heard of it, let alone the mach20, would you know anything bout it's command like? Also aboue /FL=0 for qram, i am assumning it means frame length, can i cut that down to about 8kb to to keep the page frame and STILL get the ram? And where am i gonna get a bios for a tmc-850 these days

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

The TMC850M V8.2 BIOS image is widely available in the vintage-computer.com webforum. You can either download and program the chip yourself, or pay somebody else a few bucks to do it for you.

I've tried looking up information on the Mach20 board, but I haven't been able to track down a user manual. I'd try himem.sys before you look to hard for documentation.

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:51 am

Tried HIMEM, it refuses to see it, the mach20 memory that is, although i heard something interesting about the bios of the XT completely unrelated over at vintage computer, having to do with the floppy controller. But i want to get the memory working first if i can, i have a buddy that probably can burn the image for the tmc-850, once i download the file, not sure if he's got the chip, or even what kind of chip it uses. I've also got a TMC-840 i'd like to get drivers for,,